p50, p60 4 stroke engine

  • Hi all


    You've been a great help so far.

    I use google translate to navigate here and it's been very difficult to use search option to find what I'm looking for.

    I'm planning to build 500 or 600 with alternative engine. I don't want to slaughter any Trabbi in the process.

    Plan A is to find rotten 1.1 and some body parts from p50 or p60 and weld it together.

    If it's not possible:

    Plan B restore p50 or p60 using some upgrades and 4 stroke engine and here's my enquire:

    Could you please give me a links to similar projects? or maybe from own experience give some ideas on what engine would fit( I know it's a loads of work).


    I live in UK and registration won't be a problem( I think). As a modified car it won't qualify as a historic vehicle.


    Thanks for reading this post.


    L.J


    -

  • Hello L.J.

    Welcome. Surely one of the tuning experts will be able to help you here. I have already translated your text and put the corresponding translator link here.


    best regards charlie601



    Hi an alle


    Sie waren bisher eine große Hilfe. Ich verwende Google Übersetzer, um hier zu navigieren, und es war sehr schwierig, die Suchoption zu verwenden, um das zu finden, wonach ich suche.

    Ich plane, 500 oder 600 mit alternativem Motor zu bauen. Ich möchte dabei keinen Trabbi schlachten.


    Plan A besteht darin, faulen 1.1 und einige Körperteile von p50 oder p60 zu finden und zusammenzuschweißen. Wenn es nicht möglich ist:

    Plan B stellt p50 oder p60 mit einigen Upgrades und einem 4-Takt-Motor wieder her und hier ist meine Anfrage:

    Könnten Sie mir bitte einen Link zu ähnlichen Projekten geben? oder vielleicht aus eigener Erfahrung einige Ideen geben, welcher Motor passen würde (ich weiß, es ist eine Menge Arbeit).


    Ich lebe in Großbritannien und die Registrierung wird kein Problem sein (glaube ich). Als modifiziertes Auto gilt es nicht als historisches Fahrzeug.


    Vielen Dank für das Lesen dieses Beitrags.


    L.J.


    Hier kann ins Englisch übersetzt werden:

    https://translate.google.com/?hl=de&sl=de&tl=en&op=translate

  • Danke Charlie


    Jim, V8 ist ein bisschen zu viel. Früher hatte ich 1.1 mit 1.6 ABU und ich will nichts Mächtigeres.


    70-110 PS und 110-150 NM sind genug.


    Danke noch einmal

  • Hello L.J,


    Unfortunately, I am not the right person to contact for your request, my hobby is the original P 601 vehicles. I asked for your request here in the forum using the search option. Use the link below.


    http://pf31.pappenforum.de/wcf…t=p50%2C+p60+4-Takt-Motor


    best regards, charlie601


    @All, L.J sucht hier im Forum Ansprechpartner aus der Fraktion „Technik[Tuning]“. Leider bin ich fachlich hierzu ungeeignet. Vielleicht traut sich ein Experte von hier zu mit L.J in Verbindung zu treten?

  • Hi Charlie


    Danke. Ich bin ein 1.1 Mann und meine Frau mag p60 und weil wir vereinbart haben, einen Oldtimer zu halten, müssen wir auf halbem Weg zu treffen.


    Könnten Sie als 601-Mann in wenigen Worten den Unterschied in der Suspendierung zwischen 500/600 und 601 erklären?


    Ich sehe verschiedene Schocks an der Front


    Ist es schwierig, 500 mit 601-Technologie zu bauen?



    L.J

  • Danke. Ich bin ein 1.1 Mann und meine Frau mag p60 und weil wir vereinbart haben, einen Oldtimer zu halten, müssen wir auf halbem Weg zu treffen.

    No, you should cherish your wife and look for a 'Murmel'. :hug:

  • Ist es schwierig, 500 mit 601-Technologie zu bauen?

    No, this isn't really hard, depending on your skills ;-) . You can upgrade a P50 using almost all technical components of latest Trabant 601 manufactured in 1989. But afterwards you still have a car with a 2 cyl. 2-stroke-engine and 26hp. What is your actual target? At the beginning you talked about a 4 stroke engine...


    I remember a TV-clip a couple of years ago, where someone presented his tuned P50. This car had been improved using a Volkswagen-TDI-engine providing (can't remember exactly) 130-180hp. But the structure of the car had been completely reconstructed regarding stability and fitting the transmission-unit. The car had almost nothing in common with a genuine P50 except the body shape. I never again heard about this car. Don't know whether or not the car still exists. But I'm sure: today it's almost impossible to obtain an operating license in Germany for something like that.


    Some more minds: If you really want a 4 stroke engine inside the body of a 2 stroke Trabant, you are restricted to a maximum of 3 cylinders. Maybe Daihatsu, Suzuki or something like that. There is to few space for a larger engine, Especially inside P50. Keep in mind that Trabant 1.1 has a completely different construction to enable fitting the Volkswagen-4-cylinder-4-stroke-engine.


    If you are satisfied to upgrade a P50 to a 1989 601: As above mentioned, this is no rocked science. In GDR it wasn't unusual. For the lack of obtaining new cars, many old cars have been upgraded step by step. This way it was possible to combine the old car with state-of-the-art comfort and reliability. Except for a few, many spare parts of Trabant 1989 also match to elder models.


    Today I would prefer to change the complete transmission unit incl. latest supporting frame, 26hp engine, synchronized gearbox, homokinetic axle drive shaft etc. But keep in mind that there are some issues regarding the suspension (fixing of schock absorbers). Furthermore you can change the electrics from 6V to 12V incl. three phase alternator, change the Headlights to Halogen etc. pp. And of course duplex brakes at the front axle and double cirquit hydraulic system.


    Sorry, the last paragraph doesn't realy represent my personal preference. I would prefer a genuine P50 without any upgrades. ;-)


    Best regards

    Steffen

  • Thanks Steffen


    I know nothing about 2 stroke technology hence my questions. I really appreciate your input.


    Till recently my plan was to rebuild my first car and my wedding ride-Trabbi 1.1 keeping British standards of historic vehicle:

    no structural changes to suspension, chassis and gear. Alternative capacity of original engine is allowed so my plan was to rebuild 1.1 with original block and 1.4 ABD internals, Polo GK inlet manifold and 28/36 DCD Weber. That should give 80-90 HP and 120-140NM. No modifications apart from brake servo. We're lucky here in UK, no road tax or technical inspections for historic cars, nice bonus.

    Then my wife came with an idea of p50 or p60 with driveability of 4 stroke and I'm gathering info to make an inform decision what to do next.


    Thanks again

  • Hello L.J,


    Type P 50/2 was built for a short time in 1962 for a model with a higher engine size. Technical changes were made to it, especially to the front chassis, for a later increase in output to 23 hp.


    Therefore the two types P 50/2 (20 HP) and P 60 (23 HP) can be upgraded to 26 HP most easily.
    Brochure “Instructions for the identification and conversion of Trabant cars” Interesting for you are listed under point “5 Technical changes” all possibilities.

    https://www.trabantteam-freita…abant/pdfs/hiutrabant.pdf


    For an overview of types (P 50, P50 / 1, P 50/2, P 60, P 601) a list with an explanation.

    https://www.trabantteam-freita…typen/pdfs/trabitypen.pdf


    Advertising: "Trabant brochures" over the decades

    https://www.trabantteam-freita…trabiprospekte/index.html


    best regards, charlie601

  • Charlie thanks again.


    Jim, I'll buy that W8 P50 only to keep it for zombie apocalypse or Mad Max glory days. I don't see any other use for it.


    I understand that the idea of butchering beautiful 500/600 may hurt some people's feelings.

    Good news is that 1.1 is not so pretty and making it look 601 or 600 like is a good deed.

  • If you already have a 1.1, the easiest (and I guess wisest) way would be replacing the outer bodywork. Bonnet and boot. Leave the supporting 1.1. parts and the 1.1 front window though, and think about how to solve the airflow for the engine cooling.

  • Hallo nochmal


    Ich bin sehr glücklicher Besitzer von p50/1 61 registriert, nur Fahrgestell.
    Ich hoffe, Sie können mir bei den Unterschieden zwischen p50/1 und 601 helfen, daher Fragen:
    1. Kann ich 601 Hilfsrahmen mit p50 Stoßdämpfern verwenden?
    2. Hinterachse von 601 kann in 50/1 verwendet werden?


    Ich habe ein unvollständiges Auto und Brexit und Steuern helfen nicht dabei, alles abzuschließen.

    Schätze deinen Input

  • 601er Hilfsrahmen passt du brauchst aber die unteren Querlenker vom P50 /60 mit den Anschraubungen für die Stoßdämpfer.

    Hinterachse vom 601 passt auch.

  • Motor Getriebe Lenkgetriebe, Achsen sind vom 601 verwendbar bis auf die Querlenker.

  • Thank you for your patience, I have
    no idea about this technology. I will do my best to find the original p50 front.
    Last question about the front brakes. Is
    it possible to upgrade p50 to 4x100 like 601 or do they have different brakes?


    Vielen Dank für Ihre Geduld, ich habe keine Ahnung von dieser Technologie.
    Ich werde mein Bestes tun, um die originale p50-Front zu finden.
    Letzte Frage zu den Vorderradbremsen.
    Ist es möglich, p50 auf 4x100 wie 601 aufzurüsten oder haben sie andere Bremsen?

    Edited once, last by L.J: Merged a post created by L.J into this post. ().